Eden Hill Journal

Comments, dreams, stories, and rantings from a middle-aged native of Maine living on a shoestring and a prayer in the woods of Maine. My portion of the family farm is to be known as Eden Hill Farm just because I want to call it that and because that's the closest thing to the truth that I could come up with. If you enjoy what I write, email me or make a comment. If you enjoy Eden Hill, come visit.

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Location: Maine, United States

Friday, November 04, 2005

Blinded by the Right

Well, here we are again in the middle of a hog fight with Mike. I'll bring this thing back up on top where it can be seen by any of the readers Mike claims I don't have. I refer back to my November 2 posting titled "Pure Black" where I suggested that the secret torture prisons being operated in other countries were reminiscent to me of the Soviets and Nazis, not of the America that I know.
Mike commented, "I guess nobody cares about these types of CIA leaks. Shouldn't anyone who leaked secret information about prison camps be investigated too?"
Mike's comment, for anyone who doesn't easily pick up on these things, is sly and slimy in true form to Rush Limbaugh-style conservative propaganda. Note that in his comment, he doesn't specifically (overtly) attempt to justify the torture camps or defend the fascist Bush regime for authorizing the camps. Mike would never do that. He is too Christian to do such a thing as that, although one should take note of the fact that his comment has the (subversive) effect of invalidating my main point, suggesting a scenario where neither I nor any of my readers nor the majority of the American public should even know about the existence of these torture camps. Mike suggests that whoever revealed to us their existence should be investigated for revealing classified information.
Once again, though, even this point is slimy because this isn't even his point in commenting. I would suggest that Mike could really care less about who revealed the secret and would only want an investigation as retaliation for the investigation of the White House leak against Joe Wilson's wife that is tarnishing the Bush regime now. Mike supports that notion in his second comment when he asks, "Should whoever leaked the locations of the secret camps get the third degree like you have been giving Rove and Libby?"
To Mike and all my other readers, my original post had nothing whatsoever to do with leaking of CIA information even though we might assume that the information asserting the existence of torture camps approved by the Bush Administration may well have become public through a leak of classified information. I would suggest to Mike and anyone else that the existence of these camps has been publicly known for quite some time by many people around the world. What is new is the notion that it is becoming openly controversial in public debate here in the United States. Whether the original information was leaked, observed, reported by detainees, or merely deduced beyond denial really isn't the point. The point is that we now know about it so how, as a civilized society, do we feel about it? Are we fellow fascists with the Bush regime in supporting the need for torture in our prisons or are we true Americans liberated from this repressive and totalitarian approach? Prison torture is nothing new to civilized society. Is it now our choice to embrace it into our own?
Cleverly, and in buckets of red slime, Mike dodges the issue and inverts reality, twisting it to criticize and invalidate the effort to bring to justice those in the Bush White House who by exercising the very same red slime technique used here by Mike revealed classified information about Joe Wilson's wife to discredit and silence Wilson, a critic of the Bush Administration's lies about Iraq, and then lied to investigators and under oath to the Grand Jury to cover up what they had done.
So in one simple sweep of red slime, Mike not only justified the Bush Administration's use of torture as a modern American debriefing technique casting America back to the Dark Ages, he also justified using illegal political slime to silence the critics of this Fascist regime.
I kid you not.
Just who does Mike thinks he prays to, anyway? Mike, do you really expect me to believe that this slime comes from Jesus?


Blogger Mike said...

I just asked you a simple yes or no question. For the third time now, should there be an investigation to determine who leaked the information about these secret CIA camps? Are they not disclosing classified information that puts American lives and operations at risk? Explain the difference between this and the Plame affair without needlessly attacking my religion.

Or perhaps you would just care to agree or disagree with this statement: CIA leaks are acceptable when they make Bush look bad, but they are not acceptable when they make Bush look good.

If you agree with this statement, then why is it not acceptable for me to take the opposite stance, even though I didn't?

I think you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, Bill. So I won't hold any of this stuff against you. I understand you're disappointed this week because you thought the Plame investigation was going to put Rove behind bars and spark a sweeping investigation into the pre-war intelligence. And all you got was a measily perjury charge against "Scooter" which will probably not lead to a conviction. Can't win them all, buddy.

1:15 PM, November 04, 2005  
Blogger Bill said...

Again, Mike, these posts, this one and the previous one on this topic, do not deal with the leaking of CIA information. They deal with the disgrace to the United States brought on by the use of torture as an official interrogation technique of our government.
Get a clue, boy.
Why have you been so unwilling to engage me on that topic? Why are you attempting to disengage these posts from that topic? What are you attempting to do, justify the torture? Justify the Bush Administration? Get a clue, kid. Do you really want your children growing up in a country known around the world as a supporter of prison torture the way my generation identified with Russia, North Vietnam, and China, and the way my parents' generation identified with Germany and Japan? Why are you unwilling to engage in this converstion? Why the childish and immoral distraction? Do you really have to be Rush Limbaugh's twin about everything?

6:14 PM, November 04, 2005  
Blogger Mike said...

Despite your disrespectful tone in calling me "boy" and "kid", I will play your game.

Jesus would not condone torture. Neither do I. However, what defines torture? In my mind, doing irreversible bodily harm is torture. Making someone "feel" like they are drowning is not torture. Making someone "think" we are going to kill their family is not torture. Putting a gun to their head and telling them cough up the information or die, as long as you don't pull the trigger, is not torture. Forcing them to strip naked and have women laugh at them is not torture. All of these things can be reversed. They are temporary conditions.

If a person has information about a terrorist plot that is going to kill thousands of people, or even one person, you're damned right I want my government to do everything they can short of irreversibly harming the person to get that information. Are you suggesting we should just let thousands of people die rather than get that information out of them?

11:03 AM, November 07, 2005  
Blogger Bill said...

So now we know.
The only question remaining is why did President Bush publicly condemn the abu Ghraib torture and why are there U.S. soldiers in prison for it if the torture of prisoners is officially required by the United States government? Why did we turn our backs on the troops?
The problem with you Bush supporters is that you want it both ways. You want to look moral while you opemly practice immorality and you don't care who gets hurt by your double standards.
That is an incredibly childish way to run an empire.

2:55 PM, November 07, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mike you should no something. Bill doesn't answer questions. He hides behind his self righteous notion that he is the defender of liberty and questions everyone else. Don't waste your time with this joke. Bill's a loser and an intellectual gimp.

5:03 AM, November 08, 2005  
Blogger Mike said...

Thanks, A. I know Bill is past the point of reasoning. I'm just getting entertainment out of pushing his buttons now.

6:05 PM, November 08, 2005  
Blogger Bill said...

Mike, I'm curious. I don't recall reading anything in your blog anbout your military service. Do you have any? Or are you one of these chicken-hawks like all your idols?
And what about you "A"sshole? Troop or chicken? Which is it?

6:15 PM, November 08, 2005  

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